The Collected Works of Chögyam Trungpa: Volume Five by Chögyam Trungpa
Authors: Chögyam Trungpa
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situation—the lotus opens and the child is there. It is a very straightforward thing. With regard to the lotus, we do not have to discuss such questions as the validity of the statement that Christ’s mother was a virgin. There could only be this one lotus there at that time. Then it died. So we could say it was a free birth.
S: Birth from the lotus could also mean the negation of karmic history.
TR: That’s right, yes. There is no karmic history involved at all. Just somewhere in Afghanistan a lotus happened to bear a child.
Student: Could you please say something about the relationship between the Vajradhara aspect of Padmasambhava and the dharmakaya buddha of the Kagyü lineage, also called Vajradhara?
Trungpa Rinpoche: As you say, for the Kagyü lineage, Vajradhara is the name of the primordial buddha on the dharmakaya level, who is continuously existing. Padmasambhava’s Vajradhara aspect is on the sambhogakaya level of relating with life experiences; or on a secondary dharmakaya level, it is connected with the all-pervasiveness of sentient beings, there at your disposal to work with. But it is primarily a sambhogakaya principle. In this sense, the five aspects of the sambhogakaya, the five sambhogakaya buddhas, are the eight aspects of Padmasambhava.
Student: You talked about staying with the irritation; in fact, savoring it. Is the idea that pain is associated with withdrawal and avoidance, so you move into the pain or closer to the pain, and it disappears? Is there some possibility of enlightenment coming out of that?
Trungpa Rinpoche: This is actually a very delicate point. We have the problem that a sort of sadistic attitude could occur, which we find in a lot of militant attitudes toward Zen practices as well. We also have the “inspirational” approach of getting into the teachings and ignoring the pain. These attitudes lead to blind confusion. And we find our bodies being abused, not taken care of properly.
In this case, relating with the pain is not quite the sadistic approach or that of militant practice on the one hand, nor is it based on the idea of ignoring the whole thing and spacing out into your mind trip on the other hand. It is something between these two. To begin with, pain is regarded as something quite real, something actually happening. It is not regarded as a doctrinal or philosophical matter. It is simple pain or simple psychological discomfort. You don’t move away from the pain, because if you do, you have no resources to work with. You don’t get into the pain or inflict pain on yourself, because then you are involved in a suicidal process; you are destroying yourself. So it is somewhere between the two.
Student: How does making a home in the irritations relate to the mandala principle?
Trungpa Rinpoche: That seems to be the mandala already, in itself. Relating with the irritations has the sense of there being all kinds of irritations and infinite further possibilities of them. That is a mandala. You are right there. Mandala is a sense of total existence with you in the center. So here you are in the center of irritation. It is very powerful.
Student: In defining vidyadhara, you talked about scientific knowledge. What does scientific knowledge have to do with Padmasambhava’s life?
Trungpa Rinpoche: I am using “scientific knowledge” in the sense of the most accurate knowledge on how to react to situations. The essence of crazy wisdom is that you have no strategized programs or ideals anymore at all. You are just open. Whatever students present, you just react accordingly. This is continuously scientific in the sense that it is continuously in accordance with the nature of the elements.
FIVE
Let the Phenomena Play
W E MAY NOT HAVE THE TIME to go through the rest of the eight aspects of Padmasambhava at the same pace as we went through the first two. But our discussion so far has provided a basic ground for the discussion of the whole process of Padmasambhava’s
S: Birth from the lotus could also mean the negation of karmic history.
TR: That’s right, yes. There is no karmic history involved at all. Just somewhere in Afghanistan a lotus happened to bear a child.
Student: Could you please say something about the relationship between the Vajradhara aspect of Padmasambhava and the dharmakaya buddha of the Kagyü lineage, also called Vajradhara?
Trungpa Rinpoche: As you say, for the Kagyü lineage, Vajradhara is the name of the primordial buddha on the dharmakaya level, who is continuously existing. Padmasambhava’s Vajradhara aspect is on the sambhogakaya level of relating with life experiences; or on a secondary dharmakaya level, it is connected with the all-pervasiveness of sentient beings, there at your disposal to work with. But it is primarily a sambhogakaya principle. In this sense, the five aspects of the sambhogakaya, the five sambhogakaya buddhas, are the eight aspects of Padmasambhava.
Student: You talked about staying with the irritation; in fact, savoring it. Is the idea that pain is associated with withdrawal and avoidance, so you move into the pain or closer to the pain, and it disappears? Is there some possibility of enlightenment coming out of that?
Trungpa Rinpoche: This is actually a very delicate point. We have the problem that a sort of sadistic attitude could occur, which we find in a lot of militant attitudes toward Zen practices as well. We also have the “inspirational” approach of getting into the teachings and ignoring the pain. These attitudes lead to blind confusion. And we find our bodies being abused, not taken care of properly.
In this case, relating with the pain is not quite the sadistic approach or that of militant practice on the one hand, nor is it based on the idea of ignoring the whole thing and spacing out into your mind trip on the other hand. It is something between these two. To begin with, pain is regarded as something quite real, something actually happening. It is not regarded as a doctrinal or philosophical matter. It is simple pain or simple psychological discomfort. You don’t move away from the pain, because if you do, you have no resources to work with. You don’t get into the pain or inflict pain on yourself, because then you are involved in a suicidal process; you are destroying yourself. So it is somewhere between the two.
Student: How does making a home in the irritations relate to the mandala principle?
Trungpa Rinpoche: That seems to be the mandala already, in itself. Relating with the irritations has the sense of there being all kinds of irritations and infinite further possibilities of them. That is a mandala. You are right there. Mandala is a sense of total existence with you in the center. So here you are in the center of irritation. It is very powerful.
Student: In defining vidyadhara, you talked about scientific knowledge. What does scientific knowledge have to do with Padmasambhava’s life?
Trungpa Rinpoche: I am using “scientific knowledge” in the sense of the most accurate knowledge on how to react to situations. The essence of crazy wisdom is that you have no strategized programs or ideals anymore at all. You are just open. Whatever students present, you just react accordingly. This is continuously scientific in the sense that it is continuously in accordance with the nature of the elements.
FIVE
Let the Phenomena Play
W E MAY NOT HAVE THE TIME to go through the rest of the eight aspects of Padmasambhava at the same pace as we went through the first two. But our discussion so far has provided a basic ground for the discussion of the whole process of Padmasambhava’s
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